INF 680 Syllabus
How to Start
Schedule
Lesson 3 Help

Help on problems 9, 11, and 12.

> I am having some trouble on hw 3. Question 9 I am not
> quite sure how to account for 10% per kilometer. Question
> 12 is a little hazy on the fact that the noise level is
> -60dBW and you use the absolute value but do you make any
> changes with any signs after you have figured it with an
> absolute value. Question 11c you can go about this two
> different ways so I was wonder is there a order that you
> use left to right, right to left, or add, subtract certain
> like amounts. Please give me a little hint here and there
> or some sample problems that go step by step so I can figure
> it out. I've used the one's in the on'line study but I am
> still at a loss.
> Thanks for all your help

OK, let's take a look:

On problem 9:
----------------
You lose 10% the first km. you get the result and use that as your new starting value. From there, you lose 10% of that value over the next km. Repeating this process each km until you get to the end of the 12th km.

The transmit power (T) x 90% gives you the power left over (100% - 10% gives 90% remaining) after going 1 km (Receive power, R). Then, R = (T x 90%) x 90 % gives you the power after the second km. At the end of the third km, you get R = T x 90% x 90% x 90%, which you could write as T x 0.9^3. Keep going until you reach the power at the end of the 12th km. You could work this problem backwards, to solve for T if you knew what R was.

We have to calculate R. The signal power received divided by the noise IS the signal to noise ratio. We know S/N and the noise level. Let's look at this in equation form.

    S/N = R / N, solve for R

    R = S/N * N = 10,000 * 700 nW = 10,000 * 0.000000700 W = 0.007 W

Now, you know the minimum R, so solve for T.

NOTE: We don't care what the S/N is at the transmitter. We know the signal at this point. We are very concerned what the S/N ratio is at the receiver because that is where we are trying interpret the incoming message. When we talk about S/N, it is almost always at a receive point. For this class, it will be the receive S/N all the time.

For problem 11:
------------------
It doesn't matter what order you do them in. Remember that the original units are multiplied and divided. The rules shown in lesson 3 discuss how the units are manipulated, but the rules are based on multiplication and division of units so you can figure out the results without memorizing the rules.

Examples:

6 dBm + 8 dBm = 14 dBm^2 !! (miliwatts times miliwatts is miliwatts squared) 33dBW - 3dBW = 30 dB !! (Watts divided by Watts cancels out, leaving no units) 10dBft + 10dB - 20dB = 0 dBft !! (the sum is zero, ft times no units divided by no units leaves ft, NOTE: this does not equal zero in absolute)

For problem 11 c, you'll notice that you have km x km / km. That is fairly straight forward.

Let's look at problem 12:
-----------------------------
You are asked for the transmit power. Like problem 9, you have to work backwards from the receive power. Like problem 9 you have to get the receive power from the S/N ratio. The main difference here is that you are working the problem in dB instead of absolute.

If S/N = R / N, then in dB ...

    10 log S/N = 10 log [ R / N ] = 10 log(R) - 10 log(N)

I use SNR to represent the dB value of the Signal to Noise Ratio.

    SNR = R_dB - N_dB

In English, The signal to noise ratio in dB is equal to the receive power in dB minus the noise power in dB. Solve this equation for R in dB.

Unlike problem 9, the Transmit power only attenuates one time. For this problem, T x some percentage gives us R. We can call the percentage, gain or G. If G is greater than one, the it increases the power, like a megaphone or an amplifier. If G is a fraction, between 0 and 1, then you get a decrease in power.

    T x G = R

Whoa, we have to do this in dB, right?

    10 log T + 10 log G = 10 log R

    T_dB + G_dB = R_dB

We know R in dB so we need to figure out what the gain is. The problem says, that 10 dB are lost, that is -10dB. That would be 1/10 in absolute numbers. So the Gain is 1/10, or -10dB. Keep track of the minus sign, don't lose it.

Put in -10 dB for the gain in dB and plug in the value you calculated for R in dB. Solve for T in dB and give that as your answer.

A final note, there are a few people who still have not subscribed to the list. Feel free to share the above information with anyone else in class that you know. Work on problems together, but submit your own work.

[INF 680 Syllabus] [How to Start] [Schedule]

Used with permission of the Author; Copyright (C) Kevin A. Shaffer 1998 - 2018, all rights reserved.